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hey.....you've got to admit...there are millions of people who want to live just like we live here in america.... and in order for this kind of progress to occur, we desparately need more businesses like Walmart, the largest employer, and organizations like the wto and the world bank, etc. to help these poorer countries get into the flow etc. of living the way we do here in the west.... it's great.....
if you want to support the working poor, then maybe you should stop complaining, get off your lazy butt and go shop at walmart.......
hey.....you get to live the way you do....all the poorer countries are saying, "all we want is a chance to live the same way you americans do"......everyone wants more money.....and it's groups like the wto and world bank that are going to make that happen.....
sure, it's a few folks at the top who are the wealthiest, but it's always been that way, and wining like little toddlers isn't going to change anything.....
if you don't like money, then plain and simple.....stop using it.....
there are plenty of resources on mother earth for everyone to share and live abundantly.....regardless of what all these leftist environmental groups would have us believe.....even the conservative oil giants have been investing in renewable energies, for years now....
the future is going to be more blessed for humanity than we have, more so than any of us can fathom in our most blissful fantastic imaginings......
in the future.... the infinite becomes possible....
harmony & blessings,
silly love
if you want to support the working poor, then maybe you should stop complaining, get off your lazy butt and go shop at walmart.......
hey.....you get to live the way you do....all the poorer countries are saying, "all we want is a chance to live the same way you americans do"......everyone wants more money.....and it's groups like the wto and world bank that are going to make that happen.....
sure, it's a few folks at the top who are the wealthiest, but it's always been that way, and wining like little toddlers isn't going to change anything.....
if you don't like money, then plain and simple.....stop using it.....
there are plenty of resources on mother earth for everyone to share and live abundantly.....regardless of what all these leftist environmental groups would have us believe.....even the conservative oil giants have been investing in renewable energies, for years now....
the future is going to be more blessed for humanity than we have, more so than any of us can fathom in our most blissful fantastic imaginings......
in the future.... the infinite becomes possible....
harmony & blessings,
silly love
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Tue, March 28, 2006 - 3:50 PMShopping at walmart is a good way to get people into poverty. -
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Tue, March 28, 2006 - 4:12 PMum, .....no.
It's not. -
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Tue, March 28, 2006 - 4:37 PMum, Yes it is,
but lets take this one more step shall we.
Lets talk about how Walmarts hurt rural towns and small businesses, you know those Workers. Lets talk about that.
Lets talk about that majority of things sold in Walmart are crap. Plastic, cheap, cheapest of fabrics, stale food, crap.
Crap that mindless consumers, and yes sadly mostly poor, and I shall add, in Colorado, many Latino poor and immigrant poor and Anglo poor shop in Walmart, and working poor--
but they also shop at Kmart and Target. Majority of those who shop at Sam's, are State Workers.
So I do know a bit about the Walmart world. As for the poverty overseas, well majority of those working in sweatshop compounds for Walmart and various other corporations get paid far less than even a living wage, most work there because,
there is no choice, its called economic coercion. Local economies, those small businesses and cash crops that were once small farms, are gone so what can the people do, starve? Well in fact, most of them are starving, why trafficking and debt sales of children etcetera are as high as they are. People Have to survive, thats just common sense, so sure, Capitalists KNOW this.
So they do set that bar up high now don't they.
As for making people's lives better, NO. In fact, talk to majority of labor leaders fighting Walmarts overseas, in union and/or labor organizing, they'll tell you, life isn't better. Life is just better for those 'few' who sell out their people.
Its just another extension of colonization, simply put, but rather than it being the means of nations colonizing nations for resources (though that still occurs, just in another manifestation) through the use of force, terror, etc., (thougt that still occurs, just in more modern means)...
its done now through global markets, all in the promise of democratization through globalization.
its Bullshit.
China, still has one of the highest human right abuse records, for example and I still recall the day Reagan said opening up the markets to China would decrease human right violations and spread democracy. Well, tell that to the techies who work in China.
Oh, and lets not forget the thousands of North Korean womyn who were reported to be working in slave camps in China, seems to be the next trend now, trafficking poor womyn from despot nations.
Another thing, sure, o.k. so you have tons and tons of cheap plastic goods, like I said on other post, you can't Eat them, hell you can't even sell 90 percent of them in a garage sale, and usually people wind up throwing the things in the trash.
Ever wonder why on those city clean ups why the rich, (upper class) don't have the mega amounts of shit being thrown out, as the working middle class does?
Why, because they aren't buying their shit at Walmarts, thats why. They buy high quality, stuff that lasts, and doesn't need to be replaced (and filling up our landfills) every six months.
Yes, Walmart provides jobs, but so would 100 small to medium size businesses that Would be thriving if not for Walmart monopolizing the market. Either way, people are still making low wages, and so, yes, they are sort of stuck now, shopping at Walmarts and Kmarts...
as for the working poor, very poor, they don't even shop there, they go to thrift stores...
the excess, of the franchises and of course,
Walmarts.
In solidarity,
Modotti -
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Wed, March 29, 2006 - 9:39 AMi'm sorry....but you're wrong....
the fact of the matter is that most people like walmarts....it's the few liberal protestors that have all these negative things to say....
when you get down to it....people would rather drive 50 miles out of town to the nearest walmart, than shop at the local shop....why? because walmart is more affordable to the working class......and you know that they'll always have what you need......
walmart boosts sales tax revenues in the cities they are in.....
also...traveling hippy kids and homeless folks can even live in the walmart parking lot.....things mom & pop shops would never allow....
i don't know......
if people didn't like walmart, it sure as hell wouldn't be the biggest employer, and they wouldn't be as successful as they are......
you know.... -
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Wed, March 29, 2006 - 6:17 PMWell why don't you apply to walmart be happy. -
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Thu, March 30, 2006 - 3:34 PMi'm against taking drug tests -
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Fri, March 31, 2006 - 9:48 AMSilly Love,
I won't get into the right vs wrong argument, because I feel that somewhat narrows the analysis so to speak.
Walmarts aren't good, However,
you are correct in that yes, working class and working poor do go to Walmarts because of the cheap prices...
and on This aspect, you touch on something however, that is rarely touched upon, and that is the lack of consciousness in this nation, expecially among the poor/working poor And the lure of
"consumerism", which in my opinion IS the NUMBER ONE OPIATE IN THIS NATION AND INCREASINGLY AROUND THE WORLD....
and this aspect, I believe Chomsky does quite well dissecting and his anaylsis on this fact is right on the money.
And I believe too this is where its extremely important to understand how the market works in that area of marketing to the masses, how marketing uses psychology to not just lure individuals to consume, but how those techniques are used to instill into people via manipulation of needs and desires to get people to 'believe that this is the purpose and duty, and that is to consume' to meet some requirement of social conformity and acceptance.
I dont have time to get into this into depth right now, but Parenti, Michael wrote an exceptional book about this, "Democracy for the Few" and its one of the best anaylsis done on the social controls used via corporations to 'control the masses'.
And Walmart is just a segment of that control, or manifestation, its not what I would call a round table of cigar smoking men conspiring to take over the world, no, but the result of how capitalism in this modern day works.
As for workers in Walmart, a huge percentage of those workers are womyn, single mothers, and young people, and elderly. And I do believe there has been quite a few lawsuits against Walmart based on discrimination, locking employers in, etc. It however, playing devil's advocate here, does provide employment when alternative is welfare....
however, funny thing is, majority of womyn working at Walmart, still need that welfare, in food stamps (Quest Cards), etc.
The turn over rates too, are somewhat high, and I think that alone speaks volumes...
realize however, that the effects of such employment will vary depending on region, rural vs urban. My issue with the rural regions, in how Walmarts monopolize local economies and drive out small businesses, is that the effects are far more disastrous than just small businesses being driven out...
the younger generations leave to more urban areas where there are job opportunities which in the long term of things hurts the rural towns, and I know of one, in Texas, that when I was a child, was somewhat of a growing town, well Walmart moved in, now its practically a ghost town, and who has taken place of the workers, immigrant employment.
Now I'm not anti-immigrant, I'm pro-worker (on both sides of the border, another topic, another time) but what has happened to this small town is that due to the low wages of the immigrant population, housing has gone down, businesses have all but dried up, and there is no growth, not real growth. The town is basically now a six mile long truckstop.
What the process has succeeded in however, is the divide among workers and peoples, and racism is flourishing, unfortunately, and its feeding into the overall racism we are seeing in America, that ultra-nationalism (similar to many parts of Europe and Russia, due to globalization and transnational monopolies).
Due to the low wages of workers, then sure, of Course, they will need to consume those goods, that are low price, but where does this provide, for economic growth?
Basically what you wind up with is poor buying from poor, by the millions, and someone is getting rich due to it....and more fall into that poor economic class due to the inability to form small and med size businesses (speaking from capitalist view here) and incintive dies. Then what you have, is more price cuts, meaning more wage cuts, therefore, more slave labor overseas, in areas where uh, they don't shop at Walmarts.
And on another note, yes, you are correct, Walmart and Kmart parking lots in many cities are full of Families I might add, living in cars...
and when the days of small businesses, communities, and when competition was somewhat healthy and Not monopolized, yes, you didn't See the numbers of homeless families living in their lots...
and Why was that?
Just speaking from a free and fair market point of view (not even speaking from socialist view here), one can see that monopoly of business, what I term as Corporate Feudalism, has done nothing, but create a world of slavery via wage and consumption, and a world of wealth and hoarding of resources, land, real estate, etc.
And yes, the desire to consume, is helping it along...
on that, you are correct.
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Fri, March 31, 2006 - 10:07 AMon another note,
on the drug tests, another issue that you hit on something, you see though I'm not a drug user, I refuse to take them either, its a blatant invasion of privacy and is just opening the door (which has already happened, look now at the discrimination with credit checks and smoking, in fact one corporation has the nerve now to go to employees homes and Demand smoking testing on family members), to more invasion and Control...
but, poor and working poor, will accept such invasions, Why is that?
Maybe because what choice to they have really? Either you tolerate that invasion and control or you go jobless (in areas where there isn't those small businesses and other choices) or you starve.
Drug testing in jobs where one is responsible for lives of people, such as pilots, etc., thats understandable,
but drug testing in Walmarts, well, thats a whole other agenda in my opinion...
a psyops of sorts, and oh how the American public just buys into it hook line and sinker.
Never questioning....
oh what we will do to have that least form of subsistance,
grovel grovel grovel,
in the land of the Free.
You see its simple, really, one doesn't even have to form an empirical opinion to discern what is the erosion of public and individual freedoms,
our 'freedom' today is based upon what we can afford to pay that Noble Lord. You want mobility to move around, then you must be able to afford the insurance to the Noble Lords of insurance corporations and dare you get into an accident, then those Noble Lords of Lawyers are needed to help you collect whats due to you via all those payments to the Noble Lords of insurance, and thats after the Noble Lords of Law get their percentage...
you then must be able to afford those taxes to the Noble Lords of Municipalities for roads (and why roads in poor districts are uh, somewhat decorated with pot holes) and tags and licenses and emissions (never mind that the Noble Lords of Dupont and others have records of suits against them, but the Kings bail them out--with your taxes of course),
and those very licenses are now being debated to go even further, so that the Noble Lords and Kings can keep a very close watch on you...dare you challenge their power.
This is just One example, but can you just imagine what Thomas Jefferson would think, on Noble Lords taxing you every time you mounted your horse?
Uh how we so miss monarchy...
why we set up our own, via Hollywood and Sports Stars and Media Icons.
and yes, we'll buy those cheap goods in a fervor, just to imitate them, those Lords because thats the illusion isn't it,
we aren't fucking peasants, no, we are free, in the land of the free, our poverty is just a mind thing and we too, if we work hard enough, and buy just enough of the right immitation clothes and house decors,
can one day, be just like the Lords we worship.
And we'll take the drug tests and the invasions of privacy and the erosion of our freedoms but please, don't take away our goodies or our freedom to fuck or whatever else, oh Lord and Masters...
but no, we aren't slaves, not at all.
Hell we won't even vote, and if we vote, we'll vote based on whether you fit into that glamour image we so have been taught to admire, and if we don't like that, we'll vote instead on American Idol...
we know not our history or the history or understanding of how our government works (you know because the King Bush is the President and President is all the power, just get him out and all will be fine, Ha--what is Congress anyway???), and of course, on the other side, just get rid of the US and imperialism will just vanish, like its only an American characteristic, never mind that England, Japan, Rome were all once, Imperialist nations...(typical duped thinking of the left and far left),
and lol, on the other hand, we all just praise anarchism, but embrace the 'group think' do we not?
The irony of American social psyche...
question is, how much, is the marketing to the minds of the masses,
responsible for?
Dare we ask???
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Sun, April 16, 2006 - 11:30 AMSilly Love,
I think you underestimate "whining" just by choosing such an adjectives to the dissemination of values for an alternative to the system currently presented to us.
At one time Liberals ran the show, conservatives had no power and obscure seemingly ineffectual AM radio talk show pundits like Rush Limbaugh were dismissed by Liberals as just whining. They ignored the talk, they had the power.
But talk is the beginning of building a grass roots, you don't build a grass roots by silence.
In fact for Rush, Bob Grant, Pat Robertson and other conservatives to build up an effective grass roots movement to defeat liberals like myself it took them about a good two to three decades of winning small victories and facing even setbacks like the Clinton Era to have a complete conservative victory in the legislature, executive branch, and most recently the supreme court. They are in an unopposable position to take their agenda as far as they wanted.
All that power they have now began with talking on AM radio in a time when they were laughed at and ignored as a bunch of paranoid white christian male bigots in a liberal world. The Talking united them, they all became personal spokespeople for values they learned eloquence in sharing with others and pursuading others to see the world the same way. They took over the clergy, shanghai'd smaller town elected positions, they organized as the liberals divided, lost focus, atrophied. They didn't recognize the threat that was around them and begin to try to re-invigorate their own liberal grass roots until it was too late.
So liberals need to talk, or whine as their enemies will put it.
Because sharing a point of veiw and an understanding that things need to change, even on the internet (since we can't seem to hold AM radio that well) and going through the articulation of that position, refining how it can be expressed, working out the bugs among many who contribute to the discussion... this is the very basis for what will be the liberal poor-freindly political movement that will hopefully be as wide a swing on the pendulum of the political spectrum as what we have taken to the right in recent years.
We don't have a grass roots to build if we don't share, we have nothing to say if we don't speak out even as others dismiss us in whining.
Someone was once the first guy in the tavern somewhere in France to say "enough of this Aristo bullshit, down with the aristocracy!!!" And it was just talk, god knows it could have been first met with silence and incredulity, uncomfortable shushing, sympathy, among some perhaps a whimsical fancy of "what if" they'd never think to act upon. But that man was a seed, whoever he was, it grew perhaps taking decades before heads were beginning to roll.
It should be of note today that even to this day French workers get benefits most American working class people could only dream of, funny what chopping off a few heads even from a few hundred years ago can do to keep the wealthy from getting too greedy or complacent when their labor force isn't happy.
Given so many other revolutions, peaceful and non, most recently the victory of socialistic thinking in Venezuala, have toppled the kind of people who get rich from buisinesses like Wal-Mart... well, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any of us for what we might do.
Twenty years before the Revolutionary war in America there may have been a few rabble rousers wanting an American representative in British Parliment's "House of Commons", not one person would have taken seriously the notion that one day they'd fight to seperate from the crown (not even the anti-tax activists). Are you going to be alive probably for more than twenty years? I think most of the members of this tribe will be...
And that being the case in twenty years the seeds of our talk you dismiss as whining may have grown and produced fruit that all might have to get a taste of for better, or for worse.
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Mon, April 17, 2006 - 11:18 PMall i'm saying is that walmart wouldn't be the largest employer, it wouldn't be such a rich company if people weren't buying the stuff that they sell......
walmart doesn't force you to shop there. In fact, you have to go out of your way in order to get inside of a walmart. it takes ten minutes just to walk across a walmart parking lot. and I'm wondering how many traveling kids in this forum have slept in a walmart parking lot while on the road......that's supporting walmart......
poor friendly does not mean poverty minded -
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Re: Support poor folks...shop @ Walmart
Tue, April 18, 2006 - 9:34 AMWell... hmmm.
I worked in retail
What Walmart does to their workers, it's pretty much what Sears, K-mart, Target, JC Penny, Home Depot, Barnes and Nobles, Starbucks, Cineplex theatre chains, etc... what all larger low wage employers do. Grocery stores are even pretty notiorious as are pharmacy chains.
Where it is possible try to shop in smaller family owned buisinesses for as much as you can, I try to shop as much as possible with the smaller buisinesses in my town because half the small stores are empty and I don't want to see others go out of buisiness.
one of the most evil things that large chains do regularly is they come out with projected hours based on how many people needed to work each shift. The district managers lean on the managers to punch their employees out a half an hour early as they are closing and cleaning up and they do it every night to all of the staff.... and over a year that adds up to a lot of shifts and a lot of money "saved". The company top officials know why but feign ignorance because it's violation of labor law, the district managers get sometimes up to half that amount of money stole from the employees as their "BONUS"
Walmart pulls this crap from people I know that worked there, all of them do, they are scumbags... I remember when barnes and nobles employees in Jersey got so mad about it they actually started a union and had a teamster group backing them.... Barnes and Nobles brought in special consultiants in union busting to take over, infiltrate from within as new hires, and in the matter of a year the union fell apart and the organizers were no longer working there or sold the others out.
Of course, there are individual family owned buisinesses that can't afford benefits for their employees at all, most of them would go bankrupt given the cost.
Just another reason for nation wide socialized medicine to put small buisiness on the same footing as large ones.
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