AYN RAND- For the New Intellectual

topic posted Sat, November 29, 2008 - 3:53 AM by  Max
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Has anyone read this? Ayn Rand was a novelist and philosopher form the mid-30's to the early 60's. She (I think she was a she, I've never seen a picture) had some hard core ideas, chief among them the was a sort of godlike reverence for free trade. She was of course staunchly anti-collectivist. She believed that the faults in the capitalist system were the result of first government regulations and what she considered to be defective or irrational mainstream philosophers.

"They proclaimed themselves to be the defenders of the poor against the rich, righteously evading the fact that the rich were not Attilas any longer—and the defenders of the weak against the strong, righteously evading the fact that the strength involved was not the
strength of brute muscles any longer, but the strength of man’s mind."

I it's been a long night, I can't remember which "they" she is referring to but it one or other (mainstream philosophers or government), I believe it is the later, ether way my focus is on the concept of this benevolent upper class. Any like to share their thoughts?
posted by:
Max
offline Max
Oregon
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  • Re: AYN RAND- For the New Intellectual

    Tue, January 20, 2009 - 9:04 PM
    I've only read one of Ayn Rand's books, and honestly I can't recall all the details, as I was quite young at the time. I do know, numerous staunch pro-capitalist and fierce anti-socialist/communist refer to her philosophy.

    On the other hand, socialists and communists hate her, for obvious reasons.

    So, I will probably have a different view, I believe one, when you look at Rand and any in that time period you have to take into consideration, Especially in Russia, the make-up of the Tsarist regime/economy then, as it was in many ways very different from what was taking place in Europe/America. While there was exploitation [and brutal in Russia due to Serfdom], and imperialism, there wasn't the reformist movements on the scale that there was in Europe, not in the way that the socialists and Christian socialists were working in both Europe and some in America. [and in addition the reformist movements even within the capitalists range]

    So, when she's speaking of pro-free trade, I believe she was referring to the rise of the middle class in Russia and that she was against the collectivization and forced Statism of the Bolsheviks, she had the belief, that many do, that if there was free trade and hands off, that eventually the market would work things out for itself,

    that due to the supply/demand principle, eventually the profiteers would have to move way due to the rise in the middle class/change in society, etc. In other words, the belief that as society progresses, people become more apt and more able to move up, etc. In ways that is true, when you compare that to like, societies that are stuck in Medieval times or what I would term feudalist,

    the Problem is however, is that while on paper it looks promising, in reality there is that Power imbalance, particularly who owns the resources and capital. The belief, somewhat similar to libertarian beliefs [or right wing anarchists] is that when gov interferes and regulates the rich/or capital, the rich are forced to cut jobs, pay, etc., and that if gov would just stay out of the way the People, the consumer would demand and would not trade their labor unless they were paid fair,

    that fair exchange, again, in theory. The problem however, again, with that power, is that those with the power, don't care if the ones working for them Demand anything, because there is enough individuals who are in dire need for work to sustain and live that the workers who demand, can easily be replaced,

    not only that, one thing the Ayn Rand supporters often tend to NOT want to look at, is that while they are opposed to gov interference or regulations on Capital or how businesses are run/how they hire, treat workers, etc.,

    they are in no way, against Government paying police forces to keep workers in their place, a.k.a., beating down strikes, even murdering workers who revolt.

    Where it gets interesting, at least I think, is that, what transpired in the Soviet Union [both in Bolsheviks and especially in Stalinism, though in varying degrees] is that, similar interventions worked the same exact way, as would the capitalists,

    workers striked and demanded decent working conditions, the State was called in, accused them of being class enemies or enemies of the state, and off to the gulag they went. IF they showed up late, more than three times, off to the gulag they went,

    so, there is some Problems there too, meaning, it doesn't line up with theory/promise and there was still slavery and bread lines. So, on that note, Ayn had a point, and one that I feel those who are opposed to capitalism but who do not have complete blinders to dogma on, should pay attention to so that WE DON'T MAKE THOSE SAME MISTAKES AGAIN.

    Again, however, we must understand, there are other variables that go into explaining Why applied communism went the way it did in those states and in current ones, for one, the status of Russia at the time, competing with the West and they were very behind, they were not an industrialized nation [Stalin, horrid as he was, did in fact, modernize Russia in not just fast time but enough that it probably had a lot to do with why they were able to defeat Hitler later, If, they were agarian, (sic), can't spell today, I doubt seriously if Russia could have held the forces back...political necessity, its still debated]

    also the background of the social makeup in Russia, even before Bolshevism, there were collective ideas, that did transfer over into both Lenin's and Stalin's theory, I can't recall the name of the collective communities/farming movements but I can look it up. Some of those reform movements came out of those and many of those who followed more of that socialism/or collective [it was more voluntary] were opposed to both Bolshevism and Tsarism,

    then of course, there was the nihilist influences that were very, very strong in Russia. For good reason however, same as in Germany [years later], when you look at the horrid conditions that people were forced in, Even in America, we don't have the caste system that they had then, the system under the Tsar was extremely authoritarian and people who worked as Serfs [even after the few reforms] who were due to the nature of work illiterate, most of them, were literally slaves, and IF they did not produce what the land owners wanted, often times, their children were tortured,

    That kind of horrid treatment. Very medievalist in many ways, in thinking, also very nationalistic. So that whole craftsman/middle class rise in Russia, was fairly new In comparison, to like Europe, so there was still some hope, among the middle class, that over time they could I'm sure, they thought progress like Europe and America [though different economies and different governments/political and social make ups].

    My point is, I think the far left judges Rand a little harshly, which, sure, understandable when you know the conditions the majority of people lived in, what I think is very concerning however,

    is those conditions, didn't change That much after collectivization and in fact, were somewhat horrid, and that I know after years of research and knowing people who in fact are Russian and lived in Russia. The ones who benefited from the changes were the State and Politburo [those who weren't purged that is, and that depended on the mood of gov], after Stalin passed I do know there was some changes, but then, by that time Soviets became a very militarized state, dependent upon militarization. Even then, there was poverty,

    and starvation, Russia is a huge nation though, the largest, and its not like, the West where there is accessible farm land and resources and good climate, etc., year round, so all those things one has to take into consideration plus the impact of WWII and the Cold War/and the resources it took, to feed expansionism.

    The reason, that so many opposed collectivization in Soviet, under Stalin [no matter How many here in West would like to soften the blow or glamorize it] was the not only horrid way it was done but I'm not afraid to say it, the stupid way it was done. Not only were Cossacks and farmers butchered, peasants too, for wanting to store food and not starve,

    but too, those who Had the skills to farm, were done away with...this was to feed those in the cities, so the theory/justification goes, never mind that there was a mass famine that killed thousands literally [under Stalin]. That was to fuel industrialization, to pull Russia out by force, from the ancient serfdom that was still existing and pulling her into modern day age, to ward off the threat of the Imperial west as well [that was a very real fear and yes, possibility]. So, the Reality, then opposed to the theory on paper, was brutal and extremely harsh, and millions died in the process,

    and not just rich, masses of the poor. Whether it would have been different if Lenin would have lived, hard to say, Trotsky wrote against many policies of collectivization by Stalin though he did support the theories of collectivization and redistribution, as did Lenin. On the other side,

    with reform, you have like Lenin/and et al say, those who, will reform to a point, until things are calmed down and pacified but the process of exploitation are still there and sure enough eventually, especially when power exchanges hands, as it does, those reforms don't last.

    Maybe, an alternative to both, is looking at the similarities of both, because I find, after years of thinking hard that both communism and corporatist capitalism in fact have far more in common, than what many realize. Either way,

    if poor, you're standing in a bread line and if not in a gulag most likely winding up in prison for economic crimes...and in both cases, its the State, that is in control of both resources and economy and ironically, where is the true free market? And it has a lot to do I think with who owns land,

    so, point being, I think its good to look at the criticisms on both sides and see where things go wrong, odd to say that, sure,

    but I think, its time we did. Because looking at both and history has enough evidence, there is enough suffering and misery in both and both have serious, serious flaws and both, produce an extreme imbalance of power, and in neither set up, do the People,

    have ownership, of squat.

    Solidarity,

    Modotti
    • Re: AYN RAND- For the New Intellectual

      Tue, January 20, 2009 - 10:34 PM
      first, Sorry for such a long post reply above, I'll try to shorten them. I could really get into depth/and pull the quotes/index and write novels if I'm not careful, but I like to be thorough which is hard if not impossible to do online.

      Anyway, something to throw in this too, and ironically, this is where some have a point as far as Gov intervention goes in causing poverty BUT now, here's where it really gets interesting,

      those same who protest gov intervention are often, the Capitalists who quote Ayn Rand, but too--the left [those left nations, etc] Also, limit or prohibit the same but by force, not by regulations,

      and I'm talking here about simply setting up business, small business in particular. Which, we could say, goes to building Incentives. Example, lets say, a single mother with children has a sewing machine and can't find work. So, she decides, to sew things for people. OK, hey, sounds great,

      she's inspired, wants to work, has good work ethic obviously and has incentive. So, she begins her journey and finds, that there are rules or Laws, that require,

      money. First, she finds there is ZONING laws that prohibit her having business in her apartment or home, sure, she can break the law and do it under the radar and maybe not get caught, but if her business grows eventually someone will report her. Second, she has to pay taxes, sales tax and maybe state tax, federal of course so she has to go and register for a I.D. number, which sure, she can buy things wholesale, lets hope however she has that clientele going first or she can go broke before she even gets it off the ground. Sure, again, she can do this without reporting or paying taxes but IF she wants to subsist eventually she's going to have to do what the system says,

      Then, other Laws go into effect, depending on what type of business she may be forced to move work elsewhere, and that is a whole host of annoyances, then its rents and laws and bylaws and so forth, all of course, which have more money because more people have their hand in the pot, per se. So, she may need a loan...if she can get it of course,

      depends really on her business, if its possible it will expand and she can hire, etc etc etc..if its good for the city, so forth. Then what, lets say, her business starts to take off and she builds a small clientele, but she needs to expand to not just pay for overhead but to pay rent/food, after all, that's why she started to begin with,

      and if, IF her clients spread the word and demand goes up, she may have to hire someone unless she wants to work 24 hours a day seven days a week and even then she still may not produce all she needs, don't need to explain how unfeasible that is. So, she hires a person, then she has all these other by Law taxes, so forth, and maybe she pulls it off, for a while,

      but alas, here comes big ole corporation that says, oh, we can do it for much cheaper because we have more capital and bank rolls and government Welfare, free trade overseas, so forth, and we can sell what that woman sells for a third, and far more of the things and not only that,

      we can drive her out, after all, she's competition. Or maybe she's not really competition or a threat...but she's in the way, and maybe they want to build a store near her, development, etc., and her taxes go up, or maybe, they redevelop and force her out, after all, its a neighborhood of blight so the city says, and they need to move up to compete with the other part of the city that already has developed and growth, growth and more growth, meaning more tax revenue, etc. So, the corporation can either just move on in and force her out or offer to buy her out/or her work,

      at a price however. This is just one example, there are numerous, but the thing is, not all the obstacles are from conservatives or corporations, many are from well intended liberals too, depending on the Type of business,

      so many regulations and laws and they all cost up the ass. Forcing, needless to say, dependence on wage labor, so much for incentive and work ethic. And its not just in work, its in housing,

      just try and form a tent city or a shanty town, with rules agreed upon or a coop, the city goes in an uproar, after all, can't have these cities within cities, completely self-sufficient. That's the whole irony of the hands off gov attitude,

      is that those who promote that belief are usually if not the very first to get their panties in a twist the minute some woman is selling burritos on a street corner or some kid is having a lemonade stand too many times down the block or geesh,

      someone wants to earn money by scrapping metal. Somebody is going to say, No, we can't have that....and so free market,

      hardly. Corporate market, yes,

      and all due to government [both right and left] regulations and interference. Necessity they say,

      or is it? Is it really just to preserve the MONOPOLY of the Elites? And to keep the power hoarded and centered among the few? So, when you look at it from That perspective, Rand has a point,

      because of all the red tape and gov interference, not on Big business but small businesses, we are forced into Dependence on, yes, the government, and on corporations for our livelihood, on wage labor, which is a form of slavery. So, I would ask,

      what is really Free Market? Because we don't Have a true free market in America and haven't for decades. Its only Free if one has enough capital [$$$] and owns land or can afford to rent land, land including business space. Instead, we invest billions of tax dollars in overseas development, to increase profit and cheaper goods...goods mind you,

      demanded by the public who works for that cheap wage labor. Because they can't afford the quality craftsman materials, by far. It costs more, to make those goods therefore they sell for far more,

      its funny how, when you think about it, the whole process of Walmartization, sure, they take up jobs, pay horrid wages, not as bad as some others though, and they run out other ma and pa stores,

      yet, Who shops in Walmart? Not the rich, oh no, the working poor,

      we have a family joke here about Walmart, because we live in a very poor neighborhood where most here do shop at Walmart, for groceries, its far cheaper than Safeway....Walmart is like, in a way, the communist community store where you can do it all, you work, then your wages all go to Walmart,

      for food, clothes, eyewear, banking, some probably have dental, won't be long I'm sure and they'll have medical clinics, and hey, you work, pay rent, the rest goes right back to Walmart. Its cheap, its usually close [walking distance] to poor neighborhoods, and it hires most of the poor women/older people from those very neighborhoods. The well to do and middle class, sometimes the middle class will shop at Walmart but they go there on occasion, usually they shop at the strip malls, and the rich, of course the malls and the higher end grocers.

      And ironically most don't put this together, when you make bare minimum and have three kids to feed you aren't going to shop and pay $250 for groceries when you can pay $150, and That's for generic brands. And if you're looking for a coat for your six month old infant you aren't going to pay some individual small business $75.00 when you can get it on clearance at Wallie World for $7.00,

      and the Thrift Store for $4.00.

      So, gov interference and regulations, in a huge way Yes they cause poverty, they cause dependence, no doubt,

      they do all in their power to stamp out free trade, self-incentive to Work, to be self-sufficient, to stamp out bartering systems and coops. So, ironic,

      how the majority who profess anti-gov interference, are the very ones, who legislate it to keep the poor dependent and poor. In so many ways, I don't see really the difference between corporatist capitalism/monopolies/elitism and communism [state-run/owned economy]. One just uses legislation,

      the other the gun, lol.

      and to survive while poor, to dare venture out and start a business and off the grid especially, just to be able to afford to eat and that is including After working for the man, one has to break law after law, laws made by both conservatives and yuppie liberals...go figure,

      got to laugh a little at the irony, sad though it is.

      Modotti

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